ATS vs Biopel.

[Han$en]

Selvjusterende er det næppe nej, det er helt korrekt.. Men det er som med alt andet automatisk. Det skal indstilles til det enkelte setup, præcis som med Balling og Kalkreaktor..

Jeg kan ikke tro på at det har været Pellets' skyld for alle dem det er gået galt for verden rundt, for mindst lige så mange har held.. Det er ene og alene brugeren det kommer an på, og om man har lysten til at sætte sig ind i brugen af dem.

Problemet lå formentlig i at folk mente at man bare skulle fylde reaktoren op, og smide den kraftigste pumpe på man kunne finde.. Og det er jo så netop stik modsat af hvordan de benyttes

[kenneth145]

Selvjusterende er det næppe nej, det er helt korrekt.. Men det er som med alt andet automatisk. Det skal indstilles til det enkelte setup, præcis som med Balling og Kalkreaktor..

Jeg kan ikke tro på at det har været Pellets' skyld for alle dem det er gået galt for verden rundt, for mindst lige så mange har held.. Det er ene og alene brugeren det kommer an på, og om man har lysten til at sætte sig ind i brugen af dem.

Problemet lå formentlig i at folk mente at man bare skulle fylde reaktoren op, og smide den kraftigste pumpe på man kunne finde.. Og det er jo så netop stik modsat af hvordan de benyttes

Jeg har som sagt ingen problemer haft.. udover for rent vand. Har ikke mistet hverken det ene eller det andet..
Så mon ikke du har Lidt ret i det du siger ...

[Schwensen]

Jeg startede meget langsomt op med en 1/3 del af hvad man "burde", men havde alligevel problemer. Tror dog at problemet opstod idet jeg tog mit rowaphos af, og kom biopellets i reaktoren istedet. Så er der måske "pludselig" kommet lidt fosfat i vandet, som desværre ledte til RTN for nogle af mine acroer.

[Deep Ocean]

Der har været meget lidt info om biopellets i starten, til trods af at det er et super produkt.
Alle de uheldige ting der har været med koral død eller for lave næringsværdier er noget som der blandt er grundet forkert brug.
Jeg er ved at få en akvarie ekspert fra USA der pt bor i Køln til at tilmelde sig dette forum som har været admin på nogle af de amerikanske forums blandt andet ZEOvit. Han har over 40 års erfaing inden for branchen og er ekspert i Biopellets, som kan give en mere præcis udgang i hvordan man optimalt benytter Biopellets. Håber det er af interesse for alle, der har været skeptikere og der trænger til noget god information om mange andre ting. Han skriver selvfølgelig på engelsk men håber alle kan bære over med det.

[CasperOJ]

Fedt fedt, vil glæde mig til at læse hvad han har og sige til optimal brug af BiopelletsXD

[Jamie@Vertex]

Hallo, all,

Moby had asked me to join the forum and attempt to sort out problems some of you are having with biopellets. As you have guessed, I can only write to you in English or German. My Danish is non-existant.

Please let me know how I can help.

Jamie
Cologne

[StarF]

i guess people would like to know about:

1: correct dosis, and how you convert a running system to biopellets, with out lossing anything.
2: correct flow

[Han$en]

Hallo, all,

Moby had asked me to join the forum and attempt to sort out problems some of you are having with biopellets. As you have guessed, I can only write to you in English or German. My Danish is non-existant.

Please let me know how I can help.

Jamie
Cologne

In my opinion, it would be excellent with an step-by-step guide how to ADD BioPellets to an existing Reef-Aquarium.. It's not a problem for me to find my answers on larger foreign forums, but in Denmark people tends to just listen to there neighbours. And if he's had a bad experience with something, Then it's just crap.. An well-formulated step-by-step should be able to open more eyes, and i'm sure someone gladly Will make a translation

[xuan]

Hi Jamie
Welcome to the forum. To start of I would like to say im a biopellets fan, and have been using it ever since I started my aquarium, and it works magic. In the beginning of ther algaefaze my aquarium took a few weeks to get ready instead of months thanks to biopellets. I dont have any corals though because its a fish only aquarium, and this is great that you can answer some of the problems that people have had.
My only issue is that my phosphate is at 0.15 to 0,2 and would like to reduce it even more. My nitrate is at 0.00. Pretty much non detectable on a red sea pro test kit.
Issues that I have read about is that their nitrate has dropped so much that its difficult to keep LPS corals, and some corals look washed out or bleached because of low nutrititional values.
Some people have milky water quite often because of the bacteria, and how do we dimish this problem.
Nitrate levels get very low, but alot of people suplement with a separate phosphatefilter because the phosphate does not reduce enough via biopellets. My tests of phosphate is done through a hanna checker and double tested with a red sea pro test, and the results are the same.

Thanks
Xuan Loc

Thanks.

[8220]

Hi Jamie welcome

I'm about to start up with the pellets. I have an 855 Liter tank and 180 L sump with corals and fish in it. I thought about doing the following.
Start up with 100g (dry) pellets to begin with.
for flow I will use an Ocean runner 2500 and the do a linked system, where I link up the Vertex uf 15 filters outlet with the inlet of my skimmer. So the water goes through the vertex directly into the skimmer.

How does that sound?

It is superb that you have joined to help us make Bio pellets a success in Denmark

[ole kekkonen]

hallo
Sorry, but you did the DSB with the biopellets?
i thought of making a bed of bp in the sump.,,lets say just traditional DSB one with "stirring" 1000L / h / ascent / descent

[8220]

Ok så skal jeg starte, jeg har sat nogle pellets i blød i snart 20 timer, men de er stadig helt hårde, er det normalt?

Jeg troede at de skulle "puffe" op og blive bløde?

[StarF]

Nej de skal være hårde.

[Jamie@Vertex]

i guess people would like to know about:

1: correct dosis, and how you convert a running system to biopellets, with out lossing anything.
2: correct flow

Sorry it took so long, but I am not getting notifications of E-Mails. I kind of doubt I have done all my setting correctly, as I am guessing at the Danish! Anyway,.....

Vertex recommends a dose rate of 50-200ml per 100l water. This is a very wide range and depends on the bioload of the tank. I would suggest most new users start with a calculation of 100ml to 100l, as this seems to be a good middle if you are converting from another organic carbon driven system. If you are starting new to carbon dosing (from an adsorber type filtration; GFO, nitrate filter), then I would half the calculated amount and increase over a period of 2-3 weeks to the full calculated dosis. This will prevent a strong bacterial bloom, which turns the water milky.

While on the subject of bacterial bloom, I have had it with biopellets and it has never caused a problem, disappearing in 2-3 days. I have a friend that had a similar bloom with vodka and killed many animals. Two main differences in our systems were (other than vodka vs pellets), my system has strong skimming, which injects air into the water providing much O2. His tank was relatively new (8 weeks) and had a high NO3 level. He had a poor O2 level in the water. Thy key to survival with a bacterial bloom is enough disolved oxygen in the water. Most skimmers provide this with out a problem. I any case, a carbon dosed system must have a good skimmer, IMO.

Flow rates are a bit more difficult to describe. The pellets should be in motion without pronounced dead/clogged areas. The flow must be strong enough to keep the pellets in constant motion without packing them to the top of the media filter. In general, any media filter should not be more than 65% full when not running. I order to remain in motion, they need space. I recommend the filter to be half full, that is to say a 2l filter should contain 1l pellets for optimum function. The more you add, the more likely it will pack-up at the top or have dead areas at the bottom.

Now, to control flow, as I use the Vertex Universal Media reactor, I have an inlet valve already built in. This allows some fine tuning of the flow. As pump, I use an Eheim Compact 2000 for a 2l reactor and have it turned down a bit. This gives me two points where I have flow control. Also, Vertex has made available a secondary top and bottom cap set for the inside of the reactor, which is made with a fine net designed for pellets. I am putting together a photo documentation of how to fill this reactor with shots of correct flow and the new net caps. I'll post it in the next week (I have to write the text!)

Jamie

[Jamie@Vertex]

Hallo, all,

Moby had asked me to join the forum and attempt to sort out problems some of you are having with biopellets. As you have guessed, I can only write to you in English or German. My Danish is non-existant.

Please let me know how I can help.

Jamie
Cologne

In my opinion, it would be excellent with an step-by-step guide how to ADD BioPellets to an existing Reef-Aquarium.. It's not a problem for me to find my answers on larger foreign forums, but in Denmark people tends to just listen to there neighbours. And if he's had a bad experience with something, Then it's just crap.. An well-formulated step-by-step should be able to open more eyes, and i'm sure someone gladly Will make a translation

OK, this is in the works. It is always easier with a few pictures. Hope to finish it this week.

Jamie

[Han$en]

OK, this is in the works. It is always easier with a few pictures. Hope to finish it this week.

Jamie

Sounds great!

[Jamie@Vertex]

Hi Jamie
Welcome to the forum. To start of I would like to say im a biopellets fan, and have been using it ever since I started my aquarium, and it works magic. In the beginning of ther algaefaze my aquarium took a few weeks to get ready instead of months thanks to biopellets. I dont have any corals though because its a fish only aquarium, and this is great that you can answer some of the problems that people have had.
My only issue is that my phosphate is at 0.15 to 0,2 and would like to reduce it even more. My nitrate is at 0.00. Pretty much non detectable on a red sea pro test kit.
Issues that I have read about is that their nitrate has dropped so much that its difficult to keep LPS corals, and some corals look washed out or bleached because of low nutrititional values.
Some people have milky water quite often because of the bacteria, and how do we dimish this problem.
Nitrate levels get very low, but alot of people suplement with a separate phosphatefilter because the phosphate does not reduce enough via biopellets. My tests of phosphate is done through a hanna checker and double tested with a red sea pro test, and the results are the same.

Thanks
Xuan Loc

Thanks.

Xuan,

you have noted all the same problems I have encountered with biopellets. Now, I have not really found solutions to these, but I do have a few aquarist friends using pellets that do not have these problems. I am still trying to understand what differences/factors are in play. I have managed to drop my NO3 to 0.0, like most, plus, after a bacterial bloom, my PO4 dropped to 0.00 as well. I had only about 2ppm NO3, which is not much. PO4 slowly rose up to almost 0.4 before I stepped in and tried dosing ammonia to balance the PO4 (Redfield Ratio). It did have an effect, but not as strong as I would have wanted. I then used GFO to reduce the PO4 and try again, which is about where I am at the moment.

What I am playing with are the amount of pellets (I am currently using 1.3l to 900l water) and the optimum flow rate, which I have as fast as possible without pushing the pellets to the top of the reactor. The dissolve rate of the pellets has increased and I may be seeing a more stable PO4, but it is too soon to call. If I see more of a rise, I will go to the highest dosage of the pellets recommended, 2l per 100l water. I won't kid you by saying I know what should happen, as carbon driven systems are always surprising me. I spent quite a few years with Zeovit and still use some of the products, as well as a zeolith filter. There are a lot of toys to play with, which makes testing a laborious affair. As PO4 breakdown often takes place in a more anaerobic situation, we may need to rethink how we apply pellets. A dual reactor with two flow rates might be interesting. I will be trying this in the future. As i see it, we have the tools, just how do we apply them to best effect.

I know this isn't actually answering you questions, but maybe this will trigger a few ideas from others.

Jamie

[Jamie@Vertex]

Hi Jamie welcome

I'm about to start up with the pellets. I have an 855 Liter tank and 180 L sump with corals and fish in it. I thought about doing the following.
Start up with 100g (dry) pellets to begin with.
for flow I will use an Ocean runner 2500 and the do a linked system, where I link up the Vertex uf 15 filters outlet with the inlet of my skimmer. So the water goes through the vertex directly into the skimmer.

How does that sound?

It is superb that you have joined to help us make Bio pellets a success in Denmark

First, I really should thank you all for the welcomes. I hope I live up to the expectations!

As you have essentially 1000l I would target for 1000lml as total pellets volume. This may be a bit tight in the Vertex UF-15 reactor, but try it and let me know how the flow looks. You can use the rectors valve to control the flow. The OceanRunner may be too strong, but give it a try. I've had a few over the years and they were not consistent in their flow rates!

I've never been convinced that attaching a zeo or pellet reactor direct to the skimmer is the best policy. clearly, it will remove the most bacterial waste directly, but this bacteria can have a longer usefull life in the tank before being skimmed off. It is a potential food for filterfeeders, such as clams, fan worm and tunicates, as well as small polyped corals. I would leave this option open and see how things develope. Try both methods and report back.

Hey, you guys have great smileys on this forum!

[Jamie@Vertex]

hallo
Sorry, but you did the DSB with the biopellets?
i thought of making a bed of bp in the sump.,,lets say just traditional DSB one with "stirring" 1000L / h / ascent / descent

No, I didn't use the biopellets for a DSB, but an interesting idea. I think it would prove to be a nutrient bomb in the end, though. Oxygen levels would tend to be too low. This is an area where one could experiment, but I've not tried it....yet.

[Han$en]

Hey, you guys have great smileys on this forum!

See, that's a little hillarious

Speaking of not having a clue about the Danish, you could use Google Translate to translate the whole forum for you.. It won't be perfekt, but it surely helps alot.. I use it when i surf German sites, and it sure makes an weird language readable

[StarF]

i guess people would like to know about:

1: correct dosis, and how you convert a running system to biopellets, with out lossing anything.
2: correct flow

Sorry it took so long, but I am not getting notifications of E-Mails. I kind of doubt I have done all my setting correctly, as I am guessing at the Danish! Anyway,.....

Vertex recommends a dose rate of 50-200ml per 100l water. This is a very wide range and depends on the bioload of the tank. I would suggest most new users start with a calculation of 100ml to 100l, as this seems to be a good middle if you are converting from another organic carbon driven system. If you are starting new to carbon dosing (from an adsorber type filtration; GFO, nitrate filter), then I would half the calculated amount and increase over a period of 2-3 weeks to the full calculated dosis. This will prevent a strong bacterial bloom, which turns the water milky.

While on the subject of bacterial bloom, I have had it with biopellets and it has never caused a problem, disappearing in 2-3 days. I have a friend that had a similar bloom with vodka and killed many animals. Two main differences in our systems were (other than vodka vs pellets), my system has strong skimming, which injects air into the water providing much O2. His tank was relatively new (8 weeks) and had a high NO3 level. He had a poor O2 level in the water. Thy key to survival with a bacterial bloom is enough disolved oxygen in the water. Most skimmers provide this with out a problem. I any case, a carbon dosed system must have a good skimmer, IMO.

Flow rates are a bit more difficult to describe. The pellets should be in motion without pronounced dead/clogged areas. The flow must be strong enough to keep the pellets in constant motion without packing them to the top of the media filter. In general, any media filter should not be more than 65% full when not running. I order to remain in motion, they need space. I recommend the filter to be half full, that is to say a 2l filter should contain 1l pellets for optimum function. The more you add, the more likely it will pack-up at the top or have dead areas at the bottom.

Now, to control flow, as I use the Vertex Universal Media reactor, I have an inlet valve already built in. This allows some fine tuning of the flow. As pump, I use an Eheim Compact 2000 for a 2l reactor and have it turned down a bit. This gives me two points where I have flow control. Also, Vertex has made available a secondary top and bottom cap set for the inside of the reactor, which is made with a fine net designed for pellets. I am putting together a photo documentation of how to fill this reactor with shots of correct flow and the new net caps. I'll post it in the next week (I have to write the text!)

Jamie

Tnx for your feedback, i myself are in the process of converting from a sulfer based filter, back to biopellets. And what you more or less write, is how i would do it. My plan was to start with around 100ml, and slowly turn down the speed on the sulfor filter, and add 50-100ml of biopellets every 14 day. In my plan the sulfor filter is off the system in 3-4 weeks, and biopellets would be running at around 300-400ml, depending on how it looks with keeping the values in check, i do love to feed

tnx for your feedback, i am sure a lot of people would find it usefull.

[ole kekkonen]

hallo
Sorry, but you did the DSB with the biopellets?
i thought of making a bed of bp in the sump.,,lets say just traditional DSB one with "stirring" 1000L / h / ascent / descent

No, I didn't use the biopellets for a DSB, but an interesting idea. I think it would prove to be a nutrient bomb in the end, though. Oxygen levels would tend to be too low. This is an area where one could experiment, but I've not tried it....yet.

yes of course this was a brain fart from me,sorry

soooo maybe have you tried them in a skimmer?

[pederrevnørd]

Why u would dó that Ole ?

The bacteria could be usefull As food in the tank, before they Will be pulled out via your skimmer - even zeo prefer that methodology

[ole kekkonen]

det er jo ikke fordi jeg tvivler metoden eller metodene de virker eller ihverfald for et stykke tid jeg ville også bare høre jamies svar MEN når du nu FRÅGAR på svensk så er det jo heller ikke det hele af maden eller baljens plankton der har en fysik der tillader dem at blive fanget i en skummer så jeg tror mere det her handler om at belaste et system normalt(ikke din balje peder ) og jeg føler heller ikke jeg har pengene til det hele så det her er bestemt ikke for alle..

[pederrevnørd]

det er jo ikke fordi jeg tvivler metoden eller metodene de virker eller ihverfald for et stykke tid jeg ville også bare høre jamies svar MEN når du nu FRÅGAR på svensk så er det jo heller ikke det hele af maden eller baljens plankton der har en fysik der tillader dem at blive fanget i en skummer så jeg tror mere det her handler om at belaste et system normalt(ikke din balje peder ) og jeg føler heller ikke jeg har pengene til det hele så det her er bestemt ikke for alle..

Ro på min dygtige ven

Beklager jeg blandede mig - håber ikke jeg har ødelagt din mulighed for et svar direkte fra Jamie. Ellers stil det igen, så holder jeg bøtte
HAHA god dag til dig.

Mvh
Peder

[apfolmer]

Just one question more.

As many other things, time is a needed , and very important factor... but how many weeks must pass, before the pellets is 100% up running, ang giving the wanted effect ?

I mean.. .. If there is ex. 200 ml pellets on 400 liter, for a slow start. Then this will show its effect in ? 2 weeks ?

After this, its possible to increase/decrease the amount of pellets, and then wait ?? 2 weeks, before showing the effect of the changes ?

How long time is neddend between the changes of pellet-amount-change´s ?

Hope this gives sense...